Urban Homesteading and Sustainable Living

A Joyful Homestead

Author: Christina

Ripe Rosehips

DIY Rose Hip Infused Oil

Skip to rose hip oil infusing instructions

I’m almost to the bottom of my last jar of dandelion salve, which I made in late June. I’ve been using it as a hand and body lotion and have found it to be both soft and luxurious. Because dandelion season is long past, and I did not dry any flowers for future use, I had to brainstorm and search for what I could use from my garden or from the forest to make my next batch of salve.

I settled on starting with making a rose hip salve, since they are ready for harvesting and using in mid-fall, after the first frost. Rose hips are not only nutrient-rich, but they also smell amazing! I have one large rose bush in the yard, but it did not produce many blooms after its mid-summer pruning, so there are very few hips to use. I decided instead to head out into one of the many large parks near my home where there is an abundance of wild roses.

Wild Rose June 2020
Wild Rose

I chose a bright sunny day, put on my sturdy hiking boots, grabbed a paper bag and scissors and went foraging. The walk itself was beautiful, and I found an abundance of wild rose bushes with hips in various stages. I chose rose hips that hadn’t started to dry out and decay yet (decaying rose hips look like deer droppings on a branch).

When foraging for rose petals or rose hips, wear long sleeves, long sturdy pants like jeans, and gloves. The thorns on many rose bushes are quite sharp. If you are new to foraging and wildcrafting, I recommend reading my post on the basics of wildcrafting before starting out.

Left: Decaying rose hips Right: Rose hips in varying stages of ripeness to decay
Rose hips in paper collecting bag
Foraged wild rose hips

After washing and sorting the rose hips, I ended up with about one and a quarter cups. I found many recipes online for infusing oil with rose hips and chose the simplest one. It called for using a ratio of 2 to 1, oil to rose hips. I chose a blend of coconut, sweet almond, and jojoba oils, with a splash of olive oil for additional richness. If I were making it for use on my face, I would leave out the coconut oil, as it can be comedogenic and clog pores. If you are like me and are prone to breakouts, avoid coconut oil in facial products that you buy or make.

Rose hips in measuring cup

I don’t have a double boiler, so I improvised by filling a large pot with a steaming insert to just above the steamer bottom. Then I put a smaller pot inside the steaming insert (see picture). I poured out the washed, trimmed rose hips into the small pot and then added the oils. I let the water in the pot come to a boil, then reduced it to a gentle simmer. After putting the small pot inside the larger pot, I used a meat thermometer to periodically monitor the temperature of the oil infusion. I let the rose hips infuse for four to five hours, then strained the oil through cheesecloth over a fine metal mesh strainer. For a more purified oil, you can use fine muslin cloth instead of cheesecloth.

I have heard of people using a slow cooker or even a yogurt maker for infusing oils, but I prefer to have a dedicated pot just for infusing oils and leave my other kitchen appliances for cooking food.

Rose hips infusing in oils, pot inside steamer insert inside larger pot

Step by Step Instructions for rosehip infused oil


  • Rose hips (fresh)
  • Carrier oil (coconut, jojoba, sweet almond, grape seed, and olive are some good options, but go easy on the olive oil as it has a stronger smell and can overpower the scent of what you are infusing it with)
  • Double boiler (or an improvised combination of pots)
  • Cheesecloth or muslin
  • Colander and metal mesh strainer
  • Water
  1. Gather or purchase rose hips. Look for hips that are bright red, with little to no wrinkling of the outer skin.
  2. Rinse rose hips in a colander to get off any surface dirt or other plant matter. Pat dry gently.
  3. Trim off any excess stems or leaves. You can also snip off the top hairs, especially if they have gone black, but as the resulting infused oil will be strained through cheesecloth or muslin, this is not absolutely necessary.
  4. Fill the bottom of a double boiler or pot assembly with water, bring to a boil and then reduce to a gentle simmer (I used the lowest setting).
  5. Place the rose hips either in the top half of the double boiler or in a separate pot inside the larger pot(s). Cover with carrier oils (remember the ratio: 2 parts oil to one part rose hips)
  6. Allow the rose hips to infuse over a period of 4-8 hours. I let mine infuse for 5 hours.
  7. Check the temperature of the oil periodically with a meat or candy thermometer to make sure the oil isn’t getting too hot. Ensure that the oil does not go above 100 degrees F (38 degrees C).
  8. Once enough time has elapsed, remove the pot from the heat. Allow it to cool until the oil is cool enough to be safely strained (you will want to squeeze the muslin or cheesecloth, so make sure the oil is not too hot to handle). You can wear gloves if you don’t want to get your hands greasy, but I personally prefer to work without gloves, after washing my hands thoroughly.
  9. Pour the oil and rose hips through the cheesecloth and mesh strainer, into a container of your choice. I used a large Pyrex measuring cup but then poured the cooled oil into a mason jar.
  10. Squeeze the cloth to get as much as you can out of the rose hips. Discard the rose hips and cheesecloth. You can compost the oil-soaked hips if you have used plant-based oils, but it will slow down the composting, so I don’t advise it unless you have a huge compost heap.
  11. Allow the oil to cool, with your container lightly covered. You can cool the oil in the fridge if you don’t want to wait for it to do so naturally. Store in an airtight container, in the fridge or in a cool, dark place. You can use the infused oil as is for a body or facial oil, or use it as a base for homemade lipgloss, salve or balm.

If you give this a try, please let me know how it went in the comments. I will post the instructions I follow for using infused oils to make basics salves in an upcoming blog post. Note that if you are not able to obtain fresh rose hips, you can use dried, but you do not need to do a hot infusion. Use the same ratio of oil to hips, and let it infuse in a mason jar for a few weeks in a dark cool place before straining.

honey garlic ferment

Fermented Honey Garlic

Fermented garlic honey is one of the easiest concoctions to make, yet it looks, smells and tastes like you put much more effort into it. I like to give small jars to friends as Christmas gifts, but it’s great at any time of the year. This fermentation does not produce more than a trace amount of alcohol.

This post contains affiliate links, which means I receive a small commission, at no extra cost to you, if you make a purchase using the link.

Honey on garlic

Why make a honey garlic ferment?

First of all, it’s delicious. I use it as a base for marinades quite often. Friends tell me they like to spread it on toast like preserves. It is reportedly good for immune system support and is wonderfully soothing for a sore throat. I don’t bother buying throat lozenges anymore unless I am travelling. When I wake up in the night with a sore throat, I get up and take one spoonful of the mixture and go back to bed. Many people take a spoonful daily as an immune booster. It is great for adding to your daily dose of fire cider. Let me know in the comments how you have used your honey garlic.

Here are the basic ingredients needed:

  • Raw honey (unfiltered and unpasteurized)
  • Several heads of organic garlic
  • A large mason jar with a lid (I use a quart size jar)
Ingredients for garlic honey ferment.

Raw Honey

I buy raw honey from a local apiary. Raw honey is essential for the fermentation process, as it contains wild yeast and bacteria necessary for the process. Raw honey contains antioxidants and probiotics, has antibacterial and anti-fungal properties, and has been used for thousands of years as a folk remedy. Read more on the health benefits of raw honey here.

Do not, under any circumstances, feed raw honey to anyone under the age of one, as there is a risk of botulism. The number of cases of infant botulism reported in Canada between 1979 and the present is relatively small (42 cases) but despite that, all sources I have read on raw honey strongly advise against feeding it to infants. If you are concerned about botulism, you can test your honey garlic mixture with a pH strip or digital pH meter.


Any type of garlic will work for this, but I recommend using organic, locally grown garlic when possible. Commercially sold garlic is sometimes treated with chemicals to prevent it from sprouting, and you do not want that in your mixture. I grow my garlic, but also buy some from the farmer’s market as I do not have the space to grow enough for the year.

Honey poured over garlic

Jars and lids

For my ferments, I typically use a quart or litre size mason jar, but you can make as much or as little as you desire. I recommend using a plastic mason jar lid, such as these by Ball. You can use the metal canning lids that come with the jar, but I prefer to save those for canning. The plastic lids are easy to wash and re-use, and eliminate the potential for rusting if the rings contact the honey garlic mixture (and they will).

You can also use silicone fermenting lids, but I have not tried this method, as it would still require either the solid lid for turning over or stirring with a spoon. I find the honey to be too thick to stir for the first few days. I may try this as an experiment, but I am happy with the loose lid method that I am currently using.

The amount of garlic you need will depend on the size of your jar. You ideally want to fill the jar 3/4 full with the garlic. For peeling large quantities of garlic, I use a pint-sized mason jar with a lid. Separate the cloves from the heads and place them all in the jar. Secure the lid and shake vigorously until you see the skins start to loosen. Dump the cloves onto a cutting board, and remove any skins that are still attached.

Honey garlic fermenting


  • Fill mason jar with peeled garlic to between 2/3 and 3/4 full. Garlic should be slightly bruised from the peeling process (see above). If they are not, gently press on them with the flat of a table knife to bruise them. You do not need to cut them, but I like to take off the end of the clove (the end that was attached to the bulb centre).
  • Pour or spoon raw honey into the jar until the garlic is covered. Leave about 1” to 2” head space. If your honey is quite crystallized, you may want to gently soften it first by either running the container under hot water, or placing the container it in a bowl of hot water. Do not put your honey container in the microwave.
  • Cover the jar by loosely screwing on the lid.
  • Place the jar on a small plate or saucer. Some of the honey mixture will bubble up and leak out of the jar.
  • Turn the jar over about once a day, after first tightening the lid. Remember to loosen the lid slightly when returning the jar to its upright position. If your honey is runny enough, you can shake the jar rather than flipping it.
  • Your garlic will be finished fermenting in about one month, but you can use it earlier if you want.
  • Some of the honey may remain crystallized, and that is quite normal.
  • You can add more honey and more garlic to the jar as you use it, or you can start a new batch when you get low. I usually add to mine when the jar is about half empty.

Over the next few days and weeks, the honey will become more liquid, as the moisture from the garlic is absorbed. Try to keep the garlic covered with honey, especially in the first two weeks. Turning the jar regularly should be sufficient (see instructions above). Keep the jar out of direct sunlight.

That’s it! How easy was that?! Let me know in the comments if you have tried this or have any questions before starting.

Fire Cider Recipe, Instructions and Tips

Fire cider was invented by master herbalist Rosemary Gladstar and some of her students in the late 1970s. The original recipe only contained 7 ingredients:

  • Apple cider vinegar

  • Onion

  • Garlic

  • Ginger

  • Horseradish

  • Hot peppers

  • Honey

Rosemary Gladstar has authored several books on herbalism over the years, including a new one that I’m excited to check out: Fire Cider!: 101 Zesty Recipes for Health-Boosting Remedies Made with Apple Cider Vinegar, published by Storey Publishing in October 2019.

The recipe that I use has several more ingredients in addition to the ones listed above.

This is my third year making fire cider with this recipe, and I only make it once a year because it makes a gallon (approximately three litres). I usually give at least one litre of it away to friends.

I use it in the fall through spring as an immune booster. Friends of mine discovered that it is also great for sore throats, but I highly recommend watering it down and adding a spoonful of honey if your throat is feeling raw.

Ingredients Fire Cider

Chop of the all ingredients below as thinly as possible (or in 1/2” to 1” chunks if you are pressed for time). Be prepared to be chopping for up to an hour. I prefer to hand chop the ingredients rather than use the food processor, but that is totally an option to save time and labour. I’ve provided both metric and imperial measurements. Here in Canada we tend to use a mix of both.

  • 1 orange with peel

  • 2 lemons with peel

  • 1/2 lb (226 g) ginger root (peeled or not – your choice)

  • 1/2 lb (226 g) horseradish root (easy to grow!)

  • 1 large yellow or white onion

  • 2 whole heads of garlic (the peeled weight should be 2-1/2 to 3 oz or 80 g)

  • 2-3 large jalapeno peppers (peppers with similar heat can be substituted)

  • 3-4 sprigs of thyme (I use lemon thyme)

  • 3-4 sprigs of rosemary

  • 1/2 cup of chopped parsley

  • 2 tbsp turmeric powder (or fresh turmeric root chopped finely)

  • 1/4 cup whole peppercorns (rainbow peppercorns are fun to use for this, but use what you have on hand).

  • Apple cider vinegar, unpasteurized, with the mother – approximately 1.5 litres (1.58 quarts)

Ginger, Garlic, Apple Cider Vinegar

Place all the ingredients in a 1 gallon or 3 to 4 litre size glass jar, or other glass container. Pour in the apple cider vinegar. If your jar has a metal lid, cover it first with wax paper or plastic wrap before screwing it on. If you skip this, the vinegar will corrode the metal lid. You don’t want rust in your fire cider!

I used a 3 litre size fermentation jar with lid for this batch, but you don’t need to get that fancy. For my first batch I used a sterilized fish bowl covered with plastic. I got the fish bowl at the thrift store for $2.

If you want to start off with a smaller sized batch, I suggest looking at a different recipe. There are many online to choose from. Here is a link to a good one from Grow, Forage, Cook, Ferment that uses a quart size jar. This one from Homestead & Chill uses a half-gallon size jar. I honestly prefer to make a larger batch, so that I have enough for a full year, but beginners might want to start smaller.

Shake or stir the mixture daily for 3-6 weeks. Strain the mixture through either a fine metal strainer or cheesecloth. Store in glass bottles or jars, with rubber stoppers or plastic lids (no metal lids). Drink 1-2 oz a day, watered down and sweetened with honey if desired. I don’t always water mine down, and I rarely add honey, but that is personal preference.

Fire Cider in litre bottles

After straining the solids, you can compost them, but I recommend dehydrating them if you can. I froze mine because it was too cold to dehydrate outside when I strained it. I don’t recommend dehydrating the solids inside, as the smell will be quite strong and over-powering. You can grind the dehydrated solids into a powder and use it as a spice to add heat to dishes.

Fire cider solids
Fire cider solids after straining liquid
Lilacs and honey

The Basics of Wildcrafting

What is Wildcrafting?

Wildcrafting is gathering plant matter (flowers, leaves, roots, seeds, fruits, nuts) from a relatively untouched source (The Wilds), such as a park or forested area, or even your backyard if you do not use any sprays to treat your grass or garden, with the intent of using it for food, natural medicine or beauty treatments. It can be a simple as harvesting fresh greens for a salad or flowers and herbs for a vinegar infusion, or as complicated as finding ingredients for a facial moisturizer or cough syrup. For some, wildcrafting and foraging are two words to describe the same thing, but for me, the difference is that foraging refers to the act of gathering food or medicinal plants from uncultivated areas, whereas wildcrafting refers to using those foraged plants for use in making something else.

Blossoms and dandelions

Sustainable and Ethical Harvesting

It is important to be respectful of the plants you are harvesting from and the environment you find them in. A wise young herbalist taught me to always follow the rule of three, but I think it should really be the rule of four. Quite simply, do not take more than 1/4 of the plant matter that is available. Leave the rest for 1) animals and insects, 2) for natural reseeding, and 3) for other foragers. Just because you stumble upon a perfect patch of edible mushrooms does not mean you should pick them all! Also, be respectful of landowners by always asking for permission before foraging on private land. Try to minimize damage to other plants when seeking out a specific crop. These instructions might seem like common sense, especially considering that most people who are interested in wildcrafting are likely already respectful of the environment, but I really want to encourage others to be mindful of harvesting in a sustainable manner.

wildcrafting flowers

Start with Something Simple

I’ll be honest, I was very intimidated when I first started thinking about wildcrafting. I thought I didn’t have enough plant knowledge. I thought I didn’t have the skills necessary. I thought I would need special equipment. But I was wrong. Once you know what plant you are looking for, wildcrafting can be surprisingly easy. You do need some knowledge of local plants, so start with something simple to find and correctly identify. Do not harvest something if you are unsure, especially potentially poisonous plants like mushrooms.

My first foray into wildcrafting was a dandelion salve. I chose dandelions because it was the peak season for them (April to May in my area of the world), and there was an overabundance in our yard. I do recommend starting out with a plant that you are confident in identifying. I made an infused oil with partially dehydrated dandelion flowers, and then used that oil as a base for my salve. It was much easier than I expected, and I was thrilled with the results.

Dandelion Oil wildcraft

Tips for Finding Recipes and Tutorials

I highly recommend doing an hour or more of internet research before starting out. First, choose what you want to make. Next, find instructions on a few different sites that seem relatively easy to follow. If the instructions call for ingredients that you can’t obtain, or tools you don’t have, try another site. For example, if the infusing instructions involve using a slow cooker and they don’t give instructions for using an alternate heating method like a double boiler, don’t despair! Someone, somewhere has done almost the same thing, without the use of the tool that you don’t have. If the recipe calls for an ingredient that is difficult for you to obtain, search for other recipes and find out if there are alternative ingredients that you can use. For example, most oil infusions will work well with a variety of oils. I personally like to use coconut, sweet almond, and jojoba oils in my infusions, but other people might prefer grape seed oil or olive oil in place of one or all of those.

In my tutorials, I like to give a few options for ingredients and tools, to make it more accessible for those who are just starting out. My goal is to help others do what I do, with minimal obstacles and frustration. I want you to feel the confidence and satisfaction that comes with learning a new skill and making something from scratch.

Stay tuned to the blog for my easy-to-follow tutorials on making dandelion infused oil and salve and lilac infused honey.

Dishwasher detergent

Easy DIY Dishwasher Detergent

Homemade dish detergent is easier than I thought. I wanted to find a simple DIY recipe that used very few ingredients and would be environmentally friendly while still doing a great job of cleaning. If you’re already into eco-friendly, natural home cleaning, you may already have the ingredients for this in your cupboards. I’m sharing this recipe with you, in the hopes that you can save money, reduce harm to the environment, and make fewer trips to the store. I’ve been using this since 2019 and love how easy it is. 

The three basic ingredients are washing soda, citric acid and vinegar. I buy a large box of washing soda about twice a year for $6-8 a box, and a large bag of citric acid sells for $11 on Amazon. I have also recently noticed it in the laundry and cleaning products aisle of grocery stores. I buy large jugs of white vinegar wherever I see it on sale, as it is my most commonly used household cleaning product.

Washing soda is sodium carbonate and has a high pH (alkaline), so it is best to keep it out of reach of children and avoid prolonged contact with the skin. It is rated as safe by the EPA and FDA. For more safety information click here. You can make your own washing soda by heating baking soda in your oven, but unless you are on a very tight budget, I recommend saving yourself some time and just buying it from the hardware or grocery store. Here in Canada, I buy it at Safeway or Canadian Tire.

Citric Acid occurs naturally in all citrus fruits (and some other fruits like strawberries and pineapple), but the citric acid you buy is typically synthetically manufactured. You can buy food grade citric acid that is safe to use as a food additive. It is one of the most common food additives and is typically used as a preservative or flavour enhancer. While it is rated for safe ingestion and handling, I find that it irritates my skin, so I always use gloves when handling it. It is great for cleaning soap scum and mineral scale, so it is my go-to product for cleaning the bathtub and sinks. This also makes it ideal for adding to the washing soda to give the dish-washing powder a boost. If you are concerned about the safety or price of the citric acid, there is an easy, affordable alternative: unsweetened lemonade or other citrus-based juice crystals. Check the ingredient list carefully to make sure there is nothing unnecessary added to the juice crystals like colour or artificial flavour. You could also use watered down lemon juice, but unless you have an excess of lemons and nothing better to do with them, that would not be very cost-effective.


This post contains affiliate links, which means I receive a small commission, at no extra cost to you, if you make a purchase using the link.

Dishwasher detergent ingredients


Fill a quart-size or litre jar with washing soda, leaving about 2 inches of space on top. Add 4 tbsp of citric acid and stir or shake the jar. I recommend Ball or Bernardin plastic lids if you don’t want to use your metal canning lids. I have started storing mine in a quart-size glass storage container with rubber seal (pictured above). The wide mouth makes it easier to scoop out. 

Fill your dishwasher’s detergent container, close it, and you’re almost ready to go. The final ingredient, vinegar, gets added to the bottom of your washer and will help keep your glass dishes spot-free, as well as acting as a disinfectant. I use about a half cup but I honestly don’t bother measuring how much I splash in anymore. It is not a necessary ingredient if you are on a budget and don’t mind a few spots. The washing soda and heat of the water is sufficient to clean and sanitize your dishes.

We are a two-person household, and typically fill and run the dishwasher once a week. When we have family visiting, this can increase to up to 4 times a week, but even with annual month-long family visits in the summer, I only need to buy the washing soda twice a year. I go through citric acid and vinegar a bit faster, as I use both for general cleaning.

Some DIY dish-washing powder recipes also call for coarse salt and baking soda, but unless you find your dishes aren’t as clean and spotless as you want them, don’t bother with adding them. The citric acid softens the water much as the salt would, and baking soda is generally added to break down grease on dishes. I pre-rinse the majority of my dishes, so I don’t find that baking soda is necessary.

Let me know if you try this recipe and it works as well for you as it does for my household! We are on city water, so this recipe will likely need some tweaking if you are on well water that contains more minerals. Remember that you can add a cup coarse salt or Epsom salt to the detergent if your water is especially hard.

Update Sept. 18, 2020

I ran out of citric acid and tried using just washing soda and vinegar. The dishes still came clean, but some of my glassware had a cloudy film. I had to then rinse them by hand. After I added citric acid back in this week, there is no more film, so it is an essential ingredient. 

Regrow Celery

Regrowing Celery from a Store-bought Bunch

They told me it couldn't be done. The naysayers said, “Your growing season is too short and celery takes too long to fully develop.” But I have proved them wrong, as my windowsill celery is nearly a foot tall and thriving.

Why Regrow Celery?

About a year ago, the price of celery skyrocketed to as high as $8 a bunch due to a celery juicing trend. I still wanted to cook with celery, so I started looking for economical solutions. As an avid vegetable gardener, my solution to this price hike was to try to grow our own.

I was in the planning stage of preparing the vegetable garden, and looked into growing celery in our region. Most of the information that I found indicated that our zone (zone 6) was not well suited for it because our growing season is relatively short, and very dry. Celery needs 3 to 4 months to fully mature, and plenty of water. I had been seeing posts on social media on regrowing celery from the root end of a bunch, and despite the chance that it might not grow to full size, I decided to try it out.

Unfortunately, I did not get a garden sitter when I was away on a camping vacation last summer, and my celery dried up. This year I started my windowsill celery near the end of February, hoping that a few months of slow growing in the kitchen would give my plant enough of a head start to be planted out in the garden and mature before the scorching days of summer arrived. I’m happy to report that after two full months, my celery is a foot tall and ready to go in the garden as soon as the danger of frost has passed.

How to do it

Regrowing celery from the end of a bunch is easy if you have the patience and the right conditions. Ideally, you want to have a south facing window with a wide sill. I am fortunate that my kitchen window faces due south and gets sunshine almost all day long. I suspect that it also could be done with good quality grow lights, or in a window that faces east or west, but I have not tried that myself.

Celery starts
  • Cut off the bottom of the celery bunch so you have about an inch and a half to two inches with the root end.

  • Place the celery end, root side down, in a shallow bowl or cup of water, so that at least half an inch is submerged in the water. I prefer to use a clear glass bowl, but you could even use a plastic container. You will see in my pictures that I have used wooden skewers on one of my growing ends. I’ve since learned that this is not necessary, as it will grow just as well if it’s sitting on the bottom of the bowl or container.

  • Place the bowl on your windowsill, or under grow lights if you don’t have a window that gets enough direct sunlight.

  • Change the water at least every other day, and change or wash the bowl every few days.

  • Within a few days, you will start to see new growth in the centre of the celery end.

  • The outer stalk portions will begin to decompose. Leave the decaying portions attached when you go on to the next step.

  • Once the new growth reaches about 3” tall, plant it in a container of potting soil, place the container on a saucer, and water daily. Celery plants are thirsty! Keep the soil damp, but not swampy.

  • When the new celery plant starts to get too big for the small container, re-pot it into a larger container, or plant it out in your garden if the danger of frost has passed. If you are not sure if it is big enough to replant yet, look at the bottom of the container and see if any roots are peaking out the bottom. If they are, its likely time to plant in a bigger pot. Another sure sign that it needs to be “up-potted” is yellowing or browning of the leaf edges.

  • For advanced tips on how to grow celery in your garden, I recommend reading more here: https://www.almanac.com/plant/celery

You will notice that your growing celery plant has many more leaves than a store-bought bunch. You can trim off a few leaves, once the plant is well established, and use them in any recipe that you would like a bit of subtle celery flavour. You can also dehydrate the leaves and use them as you would use dried parsley or similar herbs. I like to add mine to spaghetti sauce and even to fancy macaroni and cheese.

I now have four plants at various stages of development.

Celery plants

Do not be discouraged if your first attempt does not grow to be a full-sized celery plant. Of the four that I started this spring, one is failing to thrive and will likely have to be composted. You can read all the books and webpages in existence on gardening, but as most gardeners come to realize, you learn the most from trial and error. Keep trying!